Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that’s not why we do it.
— Richard P. Feynman
I think the same is true for a lot of folks and self hosting. Sure, having data in our own hands is great, and yes avoiding vendor lock-in is nice. But at the end of the day, it’s nice to have computers seem “fun” again.
At least, that’s my perspective.
99% of people want computers to serve them, not to be fun. My SO couldn’t care less how much fun I have setting up home assistant. They just want to turn on the lights.
Well, yes, most people want computers to be unnoticable and boring. I agree, we need more boring tech that just does a job and doesn’t bother us. That said, plenty of people find self-hosting to be fun - your SO and mine excepted, of course.
most people want computers to be unnoticable and boring. I agree, we need more boring tech
professional UI designers don’t seem to agree. they always feel the urge to come up with the next worst design
For me it’s not even about better or worse, but about different. For them it’s a nice iteration after many years, but for be it is one of the dozens of apps I use irregularly that suddenly behaves and works different and forces me to relearn things I don’t have any gain from. Since each of the different apps get that treatment every once in a while, I end up having to adjust all the damn time for something else.
I would really like we could go back to functional applications being sold as is without forced updates. I do not need constant changes all the time. WinAmp hasn’t changed in 20 years and still does exactly what it is supposed to. I could probably spin up an old MS Word 2000 and it would work just like it did 20 years ago.
Many modern apps however change constantly. No wonder they all lean towards subscriptions if they “have to” work on it all the time. But I, as a user, don’t even want that. I want to buy the thing that does what it’s supposed to and then I want it to stay that way.
I wanted to ask where the border of selfhosting is. Do I need to have the storage and computing at home?
Is a cheap VPS on hetzner where I installed python, PieFed and it’s Postgres database but also nginx and letsencrpt manually by mydelf and pointed my domain to it, selfhosting?
It depends who you ask (which we can already tell hehe), but I’d say YES, because you’re the one running the show – you’re free to grab all of your bits and pieces at any time, and move to a different provider. That flexibility of not being locked into one specific cloud service (which can suddenly take a bad turn) is what’s precious to me.
And on a related note, I also make sure that this applies to my software-stack too – I’m not running anything that would be annoying to swap out if it turns bad.
I would say yes, it’s still self-hosting. It’s probably not “home labbing”, but it’s still you responsible for all the services you host yourself, it’s just the hardware which is managed by someone else.
Also don’t let people discourage you from doing bare-metal.
Why wouldn’t you just use Docker or Podman
Manually installing stuff is actually harder in a lot of cases
Yeah why wouldn’t you want to know how things work!
I obviously don’t know you, but to me it seems that a majority of Docker users know how to spin up a container, but have zero knowledge of how to fix issues within their containers, or to create their own for their custom needs.
That’s half the point of the container… You let an expert set it up so you don’t have to know it on that level. You can manage fast more containers this way.
OK, but I’d rather be the expert.
And I have no troubling spinning up new services, fast. Currently sitting at around ~30 Internet-facing services, 0 docker containers, and reproducing those installs from scratch + restoring backups would be a single command plus waiting 5 minutes.
I’d rather be the expert
Fair, but others, unless they are getting paid for it, just want their shit to work. Same as people who take their cars to a mechanic instead of wrenching on it themselves, or calling a handyman when stuff breaks at home. There’s nothing wrong with that.
I literally get paid to do this type of work and there is no way for me to be an expert in all the services that our platform runs. Again, that’s kind of the point. Let the person who writes the container be the expert. I’ll provide the platform, the maintenance, upgrades, etc… the developer can provide the expertise in their app.
30, that’s cute. I currently have 70 containers running on my home server. That doesn’t include any lab I run or the stuff I use at work. Containers make life much easier. I also guarantee you don’t know those apps as well as you think you do either. Just being able to install and configure something doesn’t mean you know the inner workings of them. I used to do the same thing you do. Eventually, I would rather spend my time doing other things or learning certain things more in-depth and be okay with a working knowledge of others. It can be fun and rewarding to do things the hard way but don’t kid yourself and think you’re somehow superior for doing it that way.
Containers != services.
I don’t think I am better than anyone. I jumped into these comments because docker was pushed as superior, unprompted.
Installing and configuring does not an expert make, agreed; but that’s not what I said.
I would say I’m pretty knowledgeable about the things I host though, seeing as I am a contributor and / or package maintainer for a number of them…
I did that first but that always required much more resources than doing it yourself because every docker starts it’s own database and it’s own nginx/apache server in addition to the software itself.
Now I have just one Postgresql database instance running with many users and databases on it. Also just one Nginx which does all the virtual host stuff in one central place. And both the things which I install with apt and manually are set up similarly.
I use one docker setup for firefox-sync but only because doing it manually is not documented and even the docker way I had to research for quite some time.
What? No it doesn’t… You could still have just one postgresql database if you wanted just one. It is a big antithetical to microservices, but there is no reason you can do it.
But then you can’t just use the containers provided by the service developers and have to figure out how to redo their container which in the end is more work than just run it manually.
Truly awesome that this hobby is getting coverage! I’m very very lazy when it comes to self-hosting, by far my largest project was moving off Spotify and archiving all my playlists.
Rotating 3 API keys for spotdl and a YTP free trial for that sweet sweet 256kbps AAC then Musicbrainz Picard to label correctly all the music (automatic was nearly almost always wrong), then automating rebuilding the m3u8 playlists followed by the insane work of correcting all the little imperfections. Must’ve taken me like 2-3 weeks of just working on it most of the day.
But the result? A proper offline music library with all my main playlists with each song at the proper position and order in my playlists with the correct (Spotify) metadata using correct versions of the songs in at least 256kbps AAC (and many cases FLAC and where available non-vinyl hi-res).
Tossed on an old dell workstation I got for £50. Hosting navidrome where my JF, Qbittorrent-nox and Immich live. Using symfonium on my phone. Can access remotely via OpenVPN. Couldn’t be happier.
Dude Navidrome is so great. I hooked my my decades worth of music collection up to it and now I can stream b-side tracks and indie bands that weren’t on Spotify. Plus when I hit random I know it’s actually random and not some algo to sell the newest slop that Spotify is pushing.
I didn’t think I’d get as much of a kick out of knowing that my random shuffle is truly random, but I do.
Self hosting music that I purchased is a really liberating feeling
Yeah I just have ai build my uis and are slowly spinning up my own version of the web
It’s all about privacy.
I am amazed at services offered that run rampant in the home.
My ISP offers fiber. But only if you also sign up for managed wifi where they manage your internal net…no way
I got a quote for solar power…but they must use a 3rd party cloud to manage your power and it uses eth over electrical … If you use eth over electrical already, then it does whatever it wants in your home network …no way.
Cell phones? They all go into a guest wifi…not on my home network.
Learn Podman since Docker has some licensing restrictions in some cases.
Quadlet is a game changer
It is less user friendly but theoretically more powerful and secure
The learning curve can be steep but if you have ever worked with config files it isn’t bad.
The worst part about quadlets, IMO, is that they don’t use the same key words as podman run does. So turning a working podman container into a quadlet can be challenging.
Podlet is really useful in this area.
Escaping vendor lock-in. It’s why people hate the cloud when it used to be the answer for everything. You make a good product that can only be used with your hardware/software, whatever, and people run from that shit because it’s abused more often than not.
Apple is the biggest example of this. Synology is getting worse and worse. Plex not far behind either.
I recently discovered that Plex no longer works over local network, if you lose internet service. A) you can’t login without internet access. B) even if you’re already logged in, apps do not find and recognize your local server without internet access. So, yeah, Plex is already there.
A lot of people that run Plex have a Jellyfin container on standby, or they’ll use Plex for friends and family and use JF at home.
What is the point of Plex? I just went straight for Jellyfin and it does everything I need and then some. Is it just that people went with Plex initially and then stuck with it as it got enshittified?
Plex has better security, federates and shares with other plex servers and generally is less hands-on for transcoding.
But, I don’t use it. I like Jellyfin. It’s free and while it may lack a few features, it isn’t worse by any measure.
generally is less hands-on for transcoding.
Yeah, I’m not gonna give you that one. It’s a single option that you toggle. Wanna use your nvidia GPU? Enable NVENC. AMD gpu/cpu? AMF. Intel CPU? QSV.
Really not that hard…
